have been doing some deep thinking lately, and I thought I would share a concept that may be very interesting to debate and discuss. I recently had deep discussions with some theists about consciousness, material physicality, and what exactly “Information” is, both conceptually and philosophically. I have done some interesting self-research in this area and discovered a very interesting take on reality that may or may not be true. So in response to the claim that consciousness is magically immaterial or isn’t made of anything of material or substance, I begin with the materialistic or realist position in relation to matters of science and information on the matter. I will then move on to the concluding thoughts on the subject. Please feel free to share your thoughts and questions, I will be happy to discuss the topic with you and answer any questions you might have to the best of my ability.
Someone that understands why nothing cannot be a person, thing, object, substance, thought, emotion, feeling, place, or form of existing existence. Immaterial things, therefore, cannot exist. Under this position, all things must have material physical value, substance, information, structure, and complexity in order to exist. All things begin with and have a material substance of some sort. Some argue that all things are made of whatever existence itself is made of since things cannot be made from or of things and substances not in or of existence itself. It is agreeably a logical argument I will further get into as we move along here.
Under this position, it is viewed that information is a metaphorical “GOD”. At least with the Materialists who may argue as also the cause of all causation rather than some other entity that would arguably require it in order to be conscious, existent, know itself exists, or be capable of even making a simple choice or decision. It is a challenge to the Creationist narrative, and I can see why Creationism in the context of a first cause conscious entity is possibly just a logical fallacy. From what I understand, the point above would at best make the God of the Abrahamic religions regarded as merely a material physical manipulator of what already exists. Sort of like us! Hence, do we ever really create anything vs creatively manipulating what already exists materially and physically into new patterns, concepts, things, or works of art? Pretty difficult to create something from literally nothing at all, especially if nothing does not exist. At least not without begging to magic.
With that said, it is interesting in its implications, especially in regards to information and what that has to do with cognition, or even cognitive systems theory for which are a very important part of what underlines the conscious state of being. So let’s see if we can define information, intelligence, knowledge, and awareness to begin to get a grasp of the position of information as the material physical cause of Causation, to which, in short, implies that it is a material Existence at the heart of Causality.. A concept that may sound confusing, but let us begin by defining what “Information” is and see if we can unpack and make sense of this materialistic view and rebuttal to the Creationists claim that a conscious mind or being is somehow immaterial :
“Information is any type of sensory input and output or source to inquiry.”
“Information as a concept has many meanings, from everyday usage to technical settings. The concept of information is closely related to notions of constraint, communication, control, data, form, instruction, knowledge, meaning, mental stimulus, pattern, energy, perception, matter, and representation.”
“Information is any type of pattern that influences the formation or transformation of other patterns. In this sense, there is no need for a conscious mind to perceive, much less appreciate the pattern.” It’s the sum representation of all things.. it’s what gives things relevance, substance, and meaning…
So far it appears to be at the core to anything that has an awareness or anything that exists, fundamentally speaking of course. A self-awareness requires knowledge, and any sentient and aware being with intelligence must have “knowledge” to apply. even a Self-identity must have the knowledge to know of itself and to know that itself exists. Therefore, information and that which makes up the core of any sort of knowledge base are inherently the very core of any cognitive system or function thereof. I think we can all agree, thus far, that without information there cannot exist a cognitive system or a functional one for that matter. There would be no substance, meaning, relevancy, or the possibility of any sort of sentient existence. This fact alone, in my own opinion, rules out any possibility of a “first cause God”, or supernatural being as a first cause. With that said, we shall move along and further define what is “Information”.
1. facts provided or learned about something or someone:a vital piece of information
2. what is conveyed or represented by a particular arrangement or sequence of things, or things of representation and value:genetically transmitted information
*Computingdata as processed, stored, or transmitted by a computer.
3. (in information theory) a mathematical quantity expressing the probability of occurrence of a particular sequence of symbols, impulses, energy, matter., as contrasted with that of alternative sequences.
Things that are or can be known about a topic; Data that have been processed into a format, Any unambiguous abstract data, the smallest possible .
Giving what is learned from above, cognitively speaking, cognition cannot be or exist without the physical processing of physical information. There is literally no evidence to show that cognition is some sort of immaterial thing or process. Nor is there any noted means by which information can be processed, or means by which cognition can be a process without a physical process or means of processing. This brings us to “Intelligence”, and the damning question of how does one apply knowledge immaterially and without any physical processing or processes? No answers are ever given to my questions as I generally just get assertions of the magical nothing. They either are not knowledgeable enough or not intelligent enough to provide me answers or evidence of their claims and assertions. I even asked if they could immaterially demonstrate their claim by immaterial means and processes. I, of course, had no responses. Now as telling as that is, I am going to move along and define “Intelligence”, “Knowledge”, and “Awareness” so we can further question the validity of the Creationist’s immaterial claim of conscious existence as a primary argument for the existence of their first cause GOD.
1) Intelligence is only The ability to apply knowledge in order to perform better in an environment. Or the processing of knowledge to formulate a response to stimuli..
2) Wiki: “Intelligence (abbreviated int. or intel.) refers to discrete information with currency and relevance, and the abstraction, evaluation, and understanding of such information for its accuracy and value”
1) Knowledge is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as (i) expertise, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject, (ii) what is known in a particular field or in total; facts and information. Or it is awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.
2) Simple efficient definition: The collection of information on a subject or experience processed and then stored for which provides a base for mechanisms such as intelligence, reason, choice, response, consciousness, and awareness…. Further to which a method of inquiry must be based on. Hence, none of those can exist without first a base of inquiry, or the complex structure of information into a base of knowledge. There is a reason why one must always Know they exists in order to be conscious, aware, or even self-aware!
3) Knowledge is an organized body of information, or the comprehension and understanding consequent on having acquired and organized a body of facts:
Wiki: “Awareness is the state or ability to perceive, to feel, or to be conscious of events, objects or sensory patterns. In this level of consciousness, sensed data can be confirmed by an observer without necessarily implying understanding. To receive and respond to input.”
Without information, value, or material physical property there can arguably be no base to support an awareness! There seemingly must be a physical means to process, receive, and respond to stimuli or input. This means no god, no conscious self-aware beings of any sort. This is largely unarguable without the appeal to magic! The reasons for this are the same for why your computer cannot just magically process information and magically display an image on your screen. There is no possible way to immaterially do any of that. However, let’s continue on here and further evaluate this in more detail as the concept of information is pretty broad in its spectrum (see 2003, J. D. Bekenstein and Maxwell’s Demon thought experiment) , and in concerns to literally how a cognitive system physically works.
* Information is any type of pattern that influences the formation or transformation of other patterns. In this sense, there is no need for a conscious mind to perceive, much less appreciate, the pattern. Consider, for example, DNA. The sequence of nucleotides is a pattern that influences the formation and development of an organism without any need for a conscious mind.
** Systems theory at times seems to refer to information in this sense, assuming information does not necessarily involve any conscious mind, and patterns circulating (due to feedback) in the system can be called information. In other words, it can be said that information in this sense is something potentially perceived as representation, though not created or presented for that purpose. For example, Gregory Bateson defines “information” as a “difference that makes a difference”.
*** If, however, the premise of “influence” implies that information has been perceived by a conscious mind and also interpreted by it, the specific context associated with this interpretation may cause the transformation of the information into knowledge
**** In 2003, J. D. Bekenstein claimed there is a growing trend in physics to define the physical world as being made of information itself (and thus information is defined in this way) (see Digital physics). Information has a well defined meaning in physics. Examples of this include the phenomenon of quantum entanglement where particles can interact without reference to their separation or the speed of light. Information itself cannot travel faster than light even if the information is transmitted indirectly. This could lead to the fact that all attempts at physically observing a particle with an “entangled” relationship to another are slowed down, even though the particles are not connected in any other way other than by the information they carry.
***** Another link is demonstrated by the Maxwell’s demon thought experiment. In this experiment, a direct relationship between information and another physical property, entropy, is demonstrated. A consequence is that it is impossible to destroy information without increasing the entropy of a system; in practical terms this often means generating heat. Another, more philosophical, outcome is that information could be thought of as interchangeable with energy. Thus, in the study of logic gates, the theoretical lower bound of thermal energy released by an AND gate is higher than for the NOT gate (because information is destroyed in an AND gate and simply converted in a NOT gate). Physical information is of particular importance in the theory of quantum computers.
A rock before you requires information to exist. This is to where itself is information, a structure of information, or source of out put and input. Hence, if there wasn’t any information there to experience, perceive, or process, the rock simply would not exist!. Even empty space has information to offer!.
This is why, physically in the real world, information is considered the sum total of all things in the form of energy! They are considered two sides of the same coin and noted by Maxwell’s experiment! You can’t have one without the other, and this also means that consciousness has a cause, is subject to physical entropy, and requires far more cause to exist than that of anything to which is not conscious or in a state of low entropy. This is a major problem that collapses the entire creationist’s view or the God concept found in religions such as Christianity. This is especially true when you have theists claiming the logical fallacy of an Omniscient God.. But to give you an example of what I am inferring to here regarding information and energy being two sides of the same coin, I have chosen the following concerning the subject of consciousness:
The evolution of consciousness is seen in the context of energy driven evolution in general, where energy and information are understood as two sides of the same coin. From this perspective consciousness is viewed as an ecological system in which streams of cognitive, perceptual, and emotional information form a rich complex of interactions, analogous to the interactive metabolism of a living cell. The result is an organic, self-generating, or autopoietic, system, continuously in the act of creating itself. Evidence suggests that this process is chaotic, or at least chaotic-like, and capable of assuming a number of distinct states best understood as chaotic attractors
Here is where information-to-energy conversion, where Energy flow, information flow, and causation are discussed as all the same thing! Most commonly referred to as physical information, systems, and processes! I see no evidence to support conscious immateriality, and here are some resources that go into the subject:
I therefore heavily lean towards the Materialist position, pending further evidence of course! I will always welcome immaterial evidence, but I suspect that evidence will remain immaterial….., literally! Materialism aside for the moment, I further question the whole idea of a first cause deity! Much of this is understanding how cognition works and how the conscious state of being is actually a product of the processes it requires to exist itself. Meaning a conscious being could not likely ever be or have been a first cause creator of everything when itself would be a product of it as the conscious state is essential processes sensory information into a single and continuously generated image or state much like how the image on your computer screen is a product of the processes that create it! This must mean that nature has a way and a means to create and process information without sentient involvement for which can be an evolutionary basis for the evolution of cognition. So to tackle this, I addressed the issue of the creation and formation of information and complex structures :
UNDERSTANDING INFORMATION FORMATION:
We human beings seem at times unable to understand information formation because we think information has to be the result of processing by something with intelligence. The problem is that intelligence is only the ability to apply information or “knowledge” and is not required to create information or complex structures such as the brain. Thus since our brains evolved and developed to process information, it can not quantify in many cases the idea of information developing its own structures and meanings through the combining, or the merging of other pieces of information in a process called formation. A natural cause and effect process rather than a calculated intelligent process. Such as the formation of sand dunes to the complex structures of our own brains and sensory systems our cognitive systems require to produce that image on the screen we call “US”, our conscious being or existence. Anything in or of existence could be considered a form of information, or a source of information to which we can infer to as a source of inquiry for which we require to be processed in our brains in order to be aware and cognitive of. The grains of sand can be bits of information while the physical forces involved to create the sand dunes do not require any intelligent processes, yet we can have the emergence of beautifully complex structures and patterns. In principle neither do the processes that generate our cognitive state of being as all of that is almost entirely that of unconscious processing of sensory information. Yes, unsentient processes literally create the sentient existence! We know this because we cannot be physically aware of something, including ourselves before all that information is processed into the continuously generated conscious state or image. The interesting part about this is that our sense of “Now” is actually an image of the past due to the entropy and the fact that it takes time to process it all, and that includes the awareness of ourselves. This fact alone invalidates the very idea of either an immaterial consciousness or a first cause deity, and that existence is a material physical world.
Therefore, All places and things of existence have information to offer, and are themselves forms of information or physical informational processes! Thus all things can be considered pieces of information themselves. Information isn’t just merely a concept of data or mathematics! Information is matter, anything with mass, color, energy, a state of existence, or place of existence. It is anything physical while all processes can be considered physical informational processes!
“Two colors merging to form another color.. Or two color patterns coming together to form another pattern of color. Hence, the cause and effect process to where color is a representation of information even if it were black and white… The process itself is a physical informational process itself. Sound is another prime example..”
We can also reference the evolution of Prions to understand more of what material-physical information is or means:
We can prove evolution in non-living molecules as We can in living organisms. Prions are non-living molecules that can evolve and adapt to their environment just like living organisms can. Jupiter, Fla showed that these Prions can develop many different kinds of mutations that help prions develop defenses to withstand against threats. Even viruses are considered a non-living but active matter that can also evolve. However, viruses have a commonality with life known as DNA, and Prions do not. Prions consist of proteins that are composed of amino acids. The mutations are different folding arrangements of the protein molecules that achieve different material physical and informational characteristics much like that of DNA. These folding arrangements play an evolutionary role in prions and follow the same premise behind the driving force commonly found in cases of co-evolution and mutualism. Sorry creationists, but Darwin’s theory of survival of the fittest isn’t the only driving force behind evolution. The fact that non-life or non-living active matter evolves, also means that life evolves. Evolution is proven in by co-evolution, mutation, and simple observations of existing wildlife. This shows the deeper communicative connection between living active matter, non-living active matter, and inactive matter. It further shows the principles of information formation without any sort of intelligence involved.
* Furthermore, we can get even deeper into evolution by linking plant and animal into one little critter known as the Green Sea Slug. Here we can observe an example of the deeper communicative process of evolution!. The Green Sea slug can actually steal photosynthesizing organelles and genes from algae. This little slug can produce its own chlorophyll. Also, Elysia and its genetic kleptomania is yet another example of animals undergoing the sort of horizontal gene transfer that is so commonplace in bacteria to where we can see how the flow of information is a material physical process.
There is also information on the evolution of the human Genome:
Now as I have discussed evolution, DNA, the genome, or the conscious state, I came up with an ABC’s list of rules and reasons why I lean to rejecting a first cause deity or the claim that sentience is immaterial.
Knowing the ABC’s:
A: There can be no choice, or decision made without information
B: There can be no consciousness or awareness without information
C: One can not have knowledge without information
D: One can not do anything without information
E: One can not exist without informational value
F: One can not think without information
G: One can not even know one’s self exists without information
H: One can not reply, respond, or react without information
I: One can not convey, send, or express a message without information
J: There can be no morals, ethics, or laws without information
K: One can not have or express emotions, or feelings without information
L: One can not have experiences, or experience anything at all without information
M: One can not have a place to exist in order to be existent without informational structure, system, or value.
N: One can not Create, or Design anything without information
O: One can not have the ability to process things without information
P: Intelligence can not exist without information to apply
Q: No system, or process can exist without information
R: Cause and effect can not exist without information
S: Logic can not exist without information
T: Reason can not exist or things can not have a reason / purpose without information
U: There can be no meaning without information
V: There can be no value without information
W: There can be no capacity without informational value
Y: There can be no complexity without informational structure
Z: There can be no “I” without the information that gives I an Identity.
That is a pretty tough list, but there are other reasons why I am leaning towards a materialist view of the Universe and how we got here besides the points everything I have discussed above. Physical capacity among other things being among the many reasons I reject immaterial beliefs.
Discuss energy in terms of capacity, volume, time, and how that relates to existence, ourselves, and our Universe.. One interesting abstract is as follows:
I will quote from another discussion:
Infinite-dimensional spaces are widely used in geometry and topology, particularly as classifying spaces, notably Eilenberg−MacLane spaces. Common examples are the infinite-dimensional complex projective spaceK(Z,2) and the infinite-dimensional real projective space K(Z/2Z,1).
If you want to deal with Renormalization, the problem I gave you is exactly that. If our universe is finite, it can not exist in a box, container, or volume with a capacity of literal zero. What ever volume it’s in, will be infinite, or it could also be in another finite volume. However, volume in general, and capacity in general are always considered infinite. If it weren’t, you couldn’t be here.
You have a brick, just a common brick. This brick as a physical 3D object That can not be contained in a volume less than it’s own without increasing it’s energy density, or without compressing it to a higher energy density. Should this volume that contains this brick be finite, itself is like the brick to where it also can not be contained in a volume less than it’s own, or to which has a zero spatial capacity, or volume. What this means is that in order for the brick, or the volume to which contains the brick to exist, capacity and volume of space must be infinite by consequence. What some people may not know is that the brick itself is literally apart of the infinite volume to which it exists in. As in what makes up the volume also makes up the objects within the volume such as the brick. Arguably this is the very energy to which is the capacity of both the volume and the brick itself.
So what about cosmologists talking about “Nothing” if the immaterial world doesn’t exist? How did we come from nothing? Two questions often asked of me when proposing the materialist position on the Universe. Well, in case you don’t know what nothing is referenced to in cosmology, it’s the perfect vacuum state in which there are no particles, atoms, or galaxies, you, or I.. It is sort of state of nothingness, but it is only perceptually so. It is still a physical state or thing. But if you desire a better understanding of cosmology, I will just leave these below. Some key things below include knowing what Zero-point energy is, or how our Universe has a Net Energy of Zero (See Zero Energy Calculations Link below):
- 0. Understanding The Standard Model: Video
- 1. Why There Is Infinite Ground State Energy: Link
- 2. Scale Of The Universe: Flash Presentation
- 3. Orders Of Magnitude On The Energy Scale: Link
- 4. Zero-point Energy: Link
- 5. Ground state energy: Link
- 6. Vacuum energy: Link
- 7. Zero energy calculation: Link
Zero-point energy is the lowest possible energy that a quantum mechanical physical system may have; it is the energy of its ground state. All quantum mechanical systems undergo fluctuations even in their ground state and have an associated zero-point energy, a consequence of their wave-like interaction.
In quantum field theory, the vacuum state (also called the vacuum) is the quantum state with the lowest possible energy. Generally, it contains no physical particles. Zero-point field is sometimes used as a synonym for the vacuum state of an individual quantized field.
We are like the Brick, and so is our Universe (as a volume) regardless if it’s finite, or infinite. Existence, or the big picture can only ever be infinite. And that is because non-existence can not ever be an existing person, place, thing, object, or substance to represent or be a barrier/limit to the capacity or volume of Existence. Nothing can’t have volume, capacity, existence, information, property, or the ability to support and contain anything what-so-ever. Nothing =/= nonexistence.. Thus there can only ever be material physicality.
What are you made of?
Well, nothing isn’t going to be a very good answer, but yet many people like to think that the mind is somehow “non-material”. Hence, not made of anything to where, for example, religious people fall under the category of nihilism in a physical context of believing something is made literally of nothing.. They create this seemingly logical fallacy and then claim it is an Atheist that is magically into nihilism. However, purpose or phenomenon can not seem to exist without material physicality since nothing can’t be existent or an existent person, place, substance, object, entity, or thing! I have gone over this with other people before in regards to material-physicality. However, I never really pushed the connection between material-physicality and information as being one in the same until recently. This includes the concept of having a purpose, or attaining purpose. But the interesting thing about purpose is that from a Materialist point of view is that we will always have a purpose even after we die, or even if we are no-longer conscious entities. This is referring to where all that which we are made of will always exist, and will always serve a purpose. What we are made of will become that of something else. This could include perhaps becoming the fuel that ignites the birth of a new star to which may give rise to new life. Thus is well understood in regards to the conservation of Energy.. We can call this information Entropy.
Does a tree still exist if it is cut down and burned as firewood? Technically everything that made the tree will always exist. All the matter and energy that made the tree will continue on, and become emergent or bound to other things. Purpose is never lost, and is always self-attained, and self-attaining. So the purpose of existence is simply to exist because the opposite is impossible.
This concept also brings us closer to understanding the relationship between energy and information as being two sides of the same coin, or as interchangeable states. We can begin to see this in the following relationship:
Energy =/= Information:
So why is information is often considered =/= with energy? Well, here is why, there are 3 fundamental laws that govern cause and effect, information, and energy. These same 3 laws are also the principles and attributes in which govern consciousness, morals, ethics, laws, emotions, feelings, or any Complex Adaptive system with feedback. And these are as follows:
These are not only the base laws of existence, but they are also the attributes to everything, and everything we know of is made of energy. Thus it’s considered under information theory that Energy =/= information as both substance and value (as previously noted above). Thus the 3 fundamental properties, attributes, and laws are the cause of all causation. Information and energy are thus simply stated as “Cause”. There can only ever seemingly be a positive, negative, or neutral;
Piece of information
Point of view
Or the relativity of anything above
These same 3 laws apply in physics and in regards to energy and information to which are interchangeable. And thus we can establish “E” in this equation as follows:
E = Existence = Energy = information = force = cause = emergent properties = you, me, the stars, and everything else.
E = Existence
E = Energy
E = Everywhere
E = Emergence or Emerging properties
E = MC^2
E = Evolution
E = Everything
E = Everyone
E = Me to
And if you like, E = easy to understand without having to go into Everything E can do, or how E does Everything it can do. E is thus the only Established and Empirically supported truth we have thus far. E Enables us to do the things we do, and be who we are. And without E there is nothing, no Existence, no me, no you, not anything. And well, it’s good to know that E exists simply because nothing can’t. It’s good to know that E can neither be created nor destroyed. This means we will always Exist in some form or another. E Explains itself and is self-Explanatory.. It’s also Eternal, and gives us the ability to Even have Emotion..
It’s simply “E“
The most astounding fact:
This remarkable thing:
Science Saved my soul:
So to sum up the conclusion:
Existence is seen as a phenomenal reality of physical self-generating, self-oscillating, and self-organizing energy that makes you, me, the stars, matter, or anything with mass possible. This to which is arguably “A universal set of all sets“. Without information, it seems there can be no consciousness, no awareness, no existence, no objects, no things, no places, or entities. Information is thus conceptually a material physical substance, or energy in different states, structures, and complexities! It’s also seen under this argument as the true cause of causation of everything that exists, or can possibly ever exist. Thus all things including the state of consciousness are emerging properties of Information and processes.
1) I =: reference to all information that gives “I” an Identity, substance, dimension, value, an awareness, an existence, an intelligence, or a consciousness.
2) Information =: the very core cause to everything, and to which also gives things like consciousness value, existence, substance, complexity, structure, ability, intelligence, knowledge, awareness, the ability to choose, the ability to make decisions, the ability to think, the ability to do, have free will (to some extent), or to be what it is entirely. Without it, there can seem to be no possible existence, and that is impossible since nothing can not literally ever exist under a literal context.
3) Energy =/= Information: Both substance and value. Two sides of the same coin. It’s the literal source to all persons, places, and things. It’s all matter, energy, or things with mass. It’s every dimensional value. it’s the core to all attributes, phenomena, and processes! It is the sum total of all existence.
4) All things probably began from: Ground state, Zero-point energy, or vacuum energy. Anything less would seem likely to have zero informational value, Zero dimensional value, No capacity to existing, or no literal value what-so-ever.